Suji: Difference between revisions

Jump to navigation Jump to search
move the "4,5,6 not safe unless two suji are cleared" back up to the top. improve advice section & ura suji section
(move the "4,5,6 not safe unless two suji are cleared" back up to the top. improve advice section & ura suji section)
Line 7: Line 7:
*[[Shuntsu|Sequences]] are comprised of three sequential tiles. Therefore, an open wait will win off two tiles that are 3-apart. For example, {23} can win off either a 1 or 4 of the same suit. {34} can win off 2 or 5 of the same suit. This continues until you get the intervals of: 1-4, 4-7, 2-5, 2-8, 3-6, and 3-9.
*[[Shuntsu|Sequences]] are comprised of three sequential tiles. Therefore, an open wait will win off two tiles that are 3-apart. For example, {23} can win off either a 1 or 4 of the same suit. {34} can win off 2 or 5 of the same suit. This continues until you get the intervals of: 1-4, 4-7, 2-5, 2-8, 3-6, and 3-9.
*Due to the [[furiten]] rule, if a player has previously discarded any tile they could have won off of, they cannot win from other players.
*Due to the [[furiten]] rule, if a player has previously discarded any tile they could have won off of, they cannot win from other players.
*Therefore, if a tile in a suji interval is safe, then other tiles in that interval become safer against that player. For example, if an opponent discards a 4, then the 1 of the same suit is safer. This is because, if they had a wait that wins off the 1-4 interval (such as {23}), then it would be subject to furiten. Similarly, the 7 also becomes safer when a 4 is discarded, due to the 4-7 interval.
*Therefore, if a tile in a suji interval is discarded, then other tiles in that interval become safer against that player. For example, if an opponent discards a 4, then the 1 of the same suit is safer. This is because, if they had an open wait, it would be subject to furiten. Similarly, the 7 also becomes safer when a 4 is discarded, due to the 4-7 interval.
*However, if a 1 is discarded, 4 does not become safer. This is because there are two different intervals for 4, that being 1-4 and 4-7. In order for 4 to be a "full" suji, both 1 and 7 have to be discarded. The same applies to 5 and 6.


Note: suji also applies to the other forms of furiten. After an opponent declares [[riichi]], then any non-winning tile discarded by anyone becomes safe. Therefore, suji can be applied to these tiles as well. If an opponent declares riichi, and the next opponent discards a 4, then 1 and 7 are also considered suji.
Note: suji also applies to the other forms of furiten. After an opponent declares [[riichi]], then any non-winning tile discarded by anyone becomes safe. Therefore, suji can be applied to these tiles as well. So if an opponent declares riichi, and the next opponent discards a 4, then 1 and 7 are still considered suji.


==Intervals==
==Intervals==
Line 47: Line 48:


== Defense ==
== Defense ==
Suji relies on the fact that a player is using a [[ryanmen]] wait, or a related wait like [[ryanmenten]], [[nobetan]], or [[sanmentan]]. Ryanmen itself appears in around ~50% of winning hands, which is common, but not even close to guaranteed. For example, hands like [[toitoi]] and [[chiitoitsu]] are immune to suji.
Suji relies on the fact that a player is using a [[ryanmen]] wait, or a related wait like [[ryanmenten]], [[nobetan]], or [[sanmentan]]. Ryanmen itself appears in around ~50% of winning hands, which is common, but not even close to guaranteed. Hands that do not use ryanmen, like [[toitoi]] and [[chiitoitsu]], are immune to suji.


Note that the middle tiles (4,5,6) have two different suji intervals to account for. For example, 4 is part of the intervals 1-4 and 4-7. If an opponent discards a 7, the 4 isn't much safer, because the ryanmen of 1-4 is still present. In order to make 4 safer, both 1 and 7 must be safe. If both 1 and 7 are safe, then 4 is considered a nakasuji. The same applies to the other intervals.
The middle tiles (4,5,6) have two suji intervals to account for. For example, a 4 has two suji in 1-4 and 4-7. A discarded 1 does not make 4 much safer. In order for 4 to be a "full" suji, both 1 and 7 have to be safe.


Not all suji are equally safe. This is because some tiles can be targeted by [[kanchan]] (24) or [[penchan]] (12) waits.
Not all suji are equally safe. This is because some tiles can be targeted by [[kanchan]] (24) or [[penchan]] (12) waits.
Line 55: Line 56:
*Suji 2 and 8, as well as a completed nakasuji (4,5,6), are the next safest. They can be targeted by a tanki, shanpon, or kanchan.
*Suji 2 and 8, as well as a completed nakasuji (4,5,6), are the next safest. They can be targeted by a tanki, shanpon, or kanchan.
*Suji 3 and 7 are the most dangerous, though still reasonably safe. They can be targeted by a tanki, shanpon, kanchan, or penchan.
*Suji 3 and 7 are the most dangerous, though still reasonably safe. They can be targeted by a tanki, shanpon, kanchan, or penchan.
*"Half suji" tiles, e.g. a 4 after only a 7 has been discarded, are not much safer than a regular tile.
*"Half suji" tiles, e.g. a 4 after only a 1 has been discarded, are not much safer than a regular tile.


Suji based off the riichi declaration tile is considered to be more dangerous than normal. This is due to the strength of a ryankan shape. See the [[#Offense|Offense]] section for more information.
Suji based off the riichi declaration tile is considered to be more dangerous than normal. This is due to the strength of a ryankan shape. See the [[#Offense|Offense]] section for more information.
Line 102: Line 103:


=== Ura suji ===
=== Ura suji ===
Ura suji is a theory which suggests that: when a middle tile is discarded relatively early, unsafe suji intervals that are nearby become more dangerous. For example, say an opponent had a 35 [[kanchan]] in their hand. If a 2 is drawn, then 5 would be discarded from the "235", leaving just a 23 shape. The 23 waits on a 1 or 4, so if a 5 is discarded relatively early, then 1-4 becomes more dangerous.
Ura suji is a theory which suggests that: when a middle tile is discarded relatively early, a nearby tile and its suji become more dangerous.
 
Say an opponent had a 35 [[kanchan]] in their hand. If a 2 is drawn, then 5 would be discarded from the "235", leaving just a 23 ryanmen shape. The 23 waits on a 1 or 4, so if a 5 is discarded relatively early, then 1-4 becomes more dangerous. Therefore, a discarded 5 makes 1 and 4 into ura suji. If a 4 is discarded later, then the "regular" suji takes priority over ura suji.


According to ura suji:
According to ura suji:
Line 111: Line 114:
(Discarded 1/2/8/9 tiles are not particularly noteworthy, since these tiles are often discarded early anyways.)
(Discarded 1/2/8/9 tiles are not particularly noteworthy, since these tiles are often discarded early anyways.)


In the modern day, ura suji is often disregarded. If an opponent discards 5-pin early, then declares riichi later, then non-suji 4-pin would be a dangerous tile. However, a non-suji 4-man, 5-man, 4-sou, etc. would also be dangerous tiles. Therefore, knowing about ura suji would not change your behavior.  
In the modern day, ura suji is often disregarded. It is true that, if an opponent discards a 5-pin early, then a non-suji 4-pin is at least somewhat more dangerous than normal. However, a non-suji 4-man, 5-man, 4-sou, etc. would also be dangerous tiles. Therefore, knowing about ura suji would not change your behavior.  
*If you were folding, you would not discard any non-safe non-suji tiles unless you had to.  
*If you were folding, you would not discard any non-safe non-suji tiles unless you had to. Even if you did, you wouldn't discard a middle tile if you could avoid it.
*If you were attacking, you would discard ura suji anyways, because an ura suji is not that much more dangerous than a regular non-suji tile.
*If you were attacking, you would discard ura suji anyways, because an ura suji is not that much more dangerous than a regular non-suji tile.


In addition, ura suji assumes your opponent is going for maximum [[tile efficiency]]. It also assumes that the 35 kanchan had existed in the first place. The 5-pin could have been an unrelated tile, or it could have been part of a 57 kanchan, or part of a completed 556 shape, or part of a completed 135 shape, etc.
In addition, ura suji theory assumes your opponent is going for maximum [[tile efficiency]].  
 
The reason ura suji is not that much more dangerous than normal is because it assumes a (35) kanchan had existed in the first place. The 5-pin could have been an unrelated tile, or it could have been part of a 57 kanchan, or part of a completed 556 shape, or part of a completed 135 shape, etc. Even if the kanchan did exist, an opponent could have drew a 1 or 4 before reaching tenpai.


== External links ==
== External links ==
628

edits

Navigation menu